You sound like the teacher that our schools need. You care passionately, enough to speak up. Discipline is a problem that must be addressed.
Parents have come to look at schools as babysitters. Wrong! Teachers are partners in education and parents abdicating their role are wrong.
I defend teachers who use age appropriate discipline and involve parents. My children, like most, are not perfect but never in my wildest dreams did I think a school would opt not to involve parents before resorting to physical punishment.
AL law states that school teachers shall not be held accountable to the standards of the states Child Protection Act. What if this law were applied to docs and nurses? Should a doc be allowed to paddle a child for talking in the waiting room? People entrusted to care for others should work with parents not in opposition to them.
We need teachers that care to find the source of the problem rather than always resorting to 'might makes right.'
I feel that this issue should not die. There is a difference between corporal punishment and abuse. I saw the pictures and this was more than a paddling. I would still be mad as h#ll and probably in jail if this had been my child in either of these cases.
snafu
"If I got SMART with you .... how would you know???" BIG DOG
Originally posted by HITMAN If a teacher makes a comment like that then that teacher needs to be fired. Of course you know that the eighteen year old is now an adult and that does not mean that the teacher is a predator.
I disagree with this statement. While the child may be 18 y/o and in some cases considered an adult, she is still under her parents guidance while living at home. Furthermore, if this teacher will do this to an 18 y/o student, don't you think this same individual is capeable of making the same advances towards a younger child? What if this was YOUR child the teacher was making this kind of comment to? Would you be upset? I don't know about anybody else, but I would be down at the school either demanding the teacher be fired or administering a good ol' fashion thrashing to the teacher. One way or the other, I think I would get my point across. Either way, this teacher has exhibited predatory behavior in making such a comment to a female student. This person is abusing a position of authority, inasmuch as a police officer would be soliciting "sexual favors" from female motorists in exchange for not receiving a speeding ticket.
I am familiar with the 1999 incident Nursescare spoke of in the earlier post. That individual not only no longer substitute teaches at the Demopolis City School Systems, but was also banned from school property over those incidents. By the same right, the teacher should be summarily dismissed because of the same conduct. Other students were present according to Nursescare, which makes it harder for the accuser to "lie" about the incident. Regardless of the threats and intimidation by the Demopolis City School System in a vain attempt to keep this issue under the rug, students who witnessed the incident will talk and word will get out in Demopolis as to who was involved, just as in the 1999 incident. It's just a matter of time.
Demopolis City School System needs to re-evaluate this incident and take more appropriate steps other than "sweeping this issue under the rug" before something more drastic pops up - like a student pregnant with a teacher's child!
The details will come out in time. Until then, it is easy to understand why the families of children who are not treated fairly are hesitant to speak out. In less than a day, someone is willing to blame the teenager for the teacher's comments. 18 or 14 is not the issue. The teacher-student relationship is significant. k-12 students do not have the emotional developmental skills to consent to a relationship w/ teacher. It's wrong! The teacher knows this..or should be removed from teaching K-12.
If the schools address the problems, then we all stand to benefit. Most of all...the children benefit.
We must not forget that schools are created to provide an education and preparation for social interaction in the 'grown up world.' We must teach by setting the example of what will be expected when they grow up. Accountability and responsibility should travel both directions in any situation.
Although I am sure that it may have been said before, but this question is directed to nursecare. My question is how do you feel that a student who is say running around the class or constantly talking should be handled?
I have thought about it quite a bit. I see everyones point in the administering of CP can be a problem in some cases. But how do you immediately handle the situation? If you suspend the student it's like an unscheduled vacaion where they get to sit at the house and watch cartoons all day....and mabey even get in more trouble. Thus not making it a punishment at all.
I don't agree with smacking a child at every turn, but you must have some form of punsishment to deter the sudent from doing the same thing all over again right??
I wish the answer were easy but I'll give it a try, anyway. This will take a few posts in a row.
If the child is in elementary school and it is a recent or new problem, I would try warnings and simple things like time out in class or time in during free time. I'd be careful with recess since the child may need to burn off excess energy. Perhaps see what the motivation is for the child getting up. Bathroom is a big one in K-2. Is the child seeking attention because he does not get it at home? If so, perhaps rewrading the child for quiet time/seated time with 'lunch next to the teacher.' Amazingly until about 3rd or 4th grade, kids see time and luch w/ teacher as a reward. (The opposite is true after that age.) The first day it happens, I would tell the student that is his warning and that after that I will contact the parents. Be consistant and do this if you plan to say it. If it distracts from class you may have to send them to the office first time.
Regarding the 18 yo being an adult, I pointed that out to indicate that she could override her parents and file a complaint herself. Believe it or not, I have actually known of parents who wanted their children to keep such things quiet so they wouldn't be embarrassed. However, it is true that this young lady is still under her parents' guidance at home, so of course she must look to them for leadership. They must be, naturally and justifiably, concerned as to what would happen to their daughter if she pursued this further.
It doesn't really matter how old the student is. For any teacher to make such a statement is beyond comprehension in any situation. It is obviously sexual, and there is no justification for it. I work in the trenches of education every day. I have said things to some teenage students that I regretted later. The heat of the moment can be intense when a 14 yo gets in your face and tells you they are not going to do what you say. But under no circumstance would a professional educator or a moral person abuse his position as a teacher to say such a thing to a student, much less "spank" her afterward.
Any time a child can't be controled in the class, the parents should be notified. I can only help the teacher, if I know there is a problem. If it continues for days, the parents should be required to come in for a meeting.. lasts a week or more parents should have to attend class. Consider home factors. Consider medical or educational testing. In many cases medical or edu reasons should be caught in K-2 and handled before it is out of control. Try natural consequences. The child 'cost' the class time so the consequences might be to do work in the room to 'pay back' the time..perhaps cleaning the boards, desks, floors, organizing bookshelves. K-6th or so, t is important to directly connect behavior and consequences. Most of this can be done before or immediately after school so the teacher does not spend extra time at school. If behavior involved defacing things, returning them to original status is important. For just plain talking, not mouthing off, reward silent time.
Some of these ideas will work for a second grader, but when you have an 8th grade or better student then quiet time just doesn't seem like it will cut it. Plus their are many parents out there that are VERY quick to blame the school system for not educating their kids, when they themselves haven't made and ounce worth of effort to see to it personally. So those people make it even more difficult to show some sort of partial treatment, good or bad, torward any one student.
I have seen music work wonders in K-8. A simple radio or tape player, playing quiety in the backgroud during reading and other quiet times is often helpful. Students who might otherwise talk, will ignore the die hard talkers so they can listen to music. Classical is what most studies used, but anything would work. I have purchased a keyboard w/ headphones and let my children's teachers use it as a similar reward. This lets the children not only listen but also play without disturbing others. All of this works best when parents cooperate. The longer bad behavior lasts, the degree of consequences must also increase.
6-12th grade children should be held to a higher standard. They can exhibit high levels or self control. Consequences should still be linked to behavior when reasonable. But I would be far more willing to consider in school suspension for these children. Rev Moore is underfunded and often over worked but he runs an excellant program here in Dem.
Traditional suspension is a reward and should be avoided when possible. You are right. Parental involvement is the biggest factor. But we must tell the parents if we want their help. Sure some won't help but give them a chance. If it cuts behavior problems in half, at least that is progress. We have to stop using schools as babysitters and start setting our standards higher.
It may be counterproductive to some but the fact is that children with involved parents tend to perform well and end up in advanced level classes with like minded parents/students. This means that the 'problem' children are often grouped together in lower level classes which may be over crowded. From the teachers point of view, which class would you want to teach? Often the highest qualified teachers with the best adaptive skills are teaching the advanced classes. The cycle is hard to break. I don't have all the answers but I'm willing to donate my time to help teachers and schools find solutions.
If you really want to punish an 8-12 grader for minor offenses, try that reward for K-4. Make them sit with the teacher at lunch. It is worth a try and certainly our children deserve our best effort.
