That Pesky Rebel Flag

[CedarSam]

http://members.aol.com/jfepperson/al-nc.html

Interesting reading...

[Bamassee]

Originally Posted by 2lib4dem

But I am sure you would agree that, as a whole, whites have finincial, societial and family advantages. A significantt number of black, including myself ,have worked hard to achieve substantial financial success. We had to work at a disadvantage. Unlike many whites, most black did not have significant family finincial resources that were passed from generation to generation.

I'm sorry, I do not totally agree with some of your statements with regards to black vs. white achievements and what assistance is/was available to each to help obtain financial goals.

I do appreciate the difficulties faced by you or anyone that works hard for financial success or stability however, contrary to your post, I believe it's just as difficult for a white, or those of ANY ethnicity, not born into privilege, to achieve that goal. It's certainly not exclusive to the Black Community by any means.

[saddlebum]

Originally Posted by 2lib4dem

Saddlebum,
Why? Is it because a black man is taking you to task? Are you not used to blacks speaking their minds? I have no problem with you speaking yours. I just don't happen to agree with you.

I didn't realize you were "taking me to task" and frankly couldn't care if you are pink and purple polka-dotted . My problem was that you are so sensitive and argumenative as to call this statement condescending............."Black people today should be extremely proud that their forefathers were strong and resilient enough to survive those terrible ordeals" . Even this is taken out of context . "Speaking your mind" is counter-productive if it is just to see your words in print .

The sooner any minority stands on its own, without excuses, however valid, the sooner they will prosper in this society . Many have succeeded because they recognized this fact early on .

[Papa2]

I dont knwo abotu the rest of the whites but I can assure you thi sone never recieved a penny of inheritance from either of My parents and what I have I have worked for from the time I was 12 years old!
And Demopolite ot answer your question NONONONONONONO Id not recognnize any of my family members if they were Nazis as they killed innocent people that couldnt protect themselves even gassing thousands at the time including men women and children!
To even mention in the same phrase the Rebel Flag and the Swaztika is an abomination way worse thean Saban comparing the lose to La. Monroe to 9-11 and Pearl Harbor and Yes I love the Crimson Tide!

[demopolite]

...and thousands of innocent blacks were murdered, oppressed, segregated, and treated as lesser humans by people who proudly flew the rebel flag and felt they were doing the right thing.

A Jew would quite reasonable think that a person who wore a shirt with a swastika on it at least sympathized with the ideals of Nazi Germany, and a black person would quite reasonably think that a person who wore a rebel flag on it at least sympathized with the ideals of the CSA and the Jim Crow South.

Posted via Mobile Device

[Sweet Pea]

Originally Posted by demopolite

AUFAN, what about an adult who chose to wear a swastika? What would your impression be? Would you believe him if he said "I harbor no ill will toward Jews, I'm just proud of my heritage"?

Would you if you were a Jew?


Posted via Mobile Device

Here we are talking about impressions again. In post 65 you talked about first impressions. You said first impressions make a lot of difference in wheather we get to know someone better. In post 68 I asked if you care what someone's first impression of you was. You never answered. I am still interested in what you answer would be.

If I had a family member or friend that did a dastardly deed against someone or group of people, I would not like it, but I wouldn't kick them to the curb.I have friends that I have told "I don't like what you have done, but I still love you". I guess that is the heathern in me. You see, you don't have to like what someone has done, but you can still be their friend. I think there was talk about stumbling blocks back there somewhere. Jmo

[demopolite]

If someone is a horrible person or a racist, I don't want to be their friend. Yes...first impressions make a difference in whether you get to know someone better -- if someone was doing or saying something I completely opposed when I first met them, I probably wouldn't seek to get to know them better because I found their actions distasteful (example: if you use the word n*****r the first time I meet you, I probably won't have much interest in getting to know you better).

We all make judgments on who we want to be around and who we want to be friends with because we want to actually enjoy our time with other people. Who actually meets someone who represents everything they fundamentally disagree or find distasteful and say "Hey...I'd like to get to know this person better"?

As I have said repeatedly, I do have certain preconceived notions about people who fly the rebel flag, which is why I started this thread: to give those who fly or support flying the flag an opportunity to say why -- to challenge my preconceived notions. So far, we've gotten two completely honest and rational explanations:

(1) Meisterschutze: "I wish the South had won."

(2) Brad/CedarSam: "Because people think it looks cool."

All of the other responses cite "history" and "heritage" and "Southernness," but there's still a lot there to be talked about, which is why I'm asking follow-up questions and posing analogies.

So: the purpose of this thread is to challenge my preconceived notions about those that fly or support flying of the Confederate flag and to give them a chance to explain their choice so that I won't "judge a book by its cover."

Is that a good enough explanation?

[jowlar]

Out of curiosity.

If a black man displayed a rebel flag honoring an ancestor that fought bravely during the civil war, would anyone still be offended?

If a white man put a sign in his yard that read "white people are bad", would anyone still be offended?

[Sweet Pea]

Originally Posted by demopolite

If someone is a horrible person or a racist, I don't want to be their friend. Yes...first impressions make a difference in whether you get to know someone better -- if someone was doing or saying something I completely opposed when I first met them, I probably wouldn't seek to get to know them better because I found their actions distasteful (example: if you use the word n*****r the first time I meet you, I probably won't have much interest in getting to know you better).

We all make judgments on who we want to be around and who we want to be friends with because we want to actually enjoy our time with other people. Who actually meets someone who represents everything they fundamentally disagree or find distasteful and say "Hey...I'd like to get to know this person better"?

As I have said repeatedly, I do have certain preconceived notions about people who fly the rebel flag, which is why I started this thread: to give those who fly or support flying the flag an opportunity to say why -- to challenge my preconceived notions. So far, we've gotten two completely honest and rational explanations:

(1) Meisterschutze: "I wish the South had won."

(2) Brad/CedarSam: "Because people think it looks cool."

All of the other responses cite "history" and "heritage" and "Southernness," but there's still a lot there to be talked about, which is why I'm asking follow-up questions and posing analogies.

So: the purpose of this thread is to challenge my preconceived notions about those that fly or support flying of the Confederate flag and to give them a chance to explain their choice so that I won't "judge a book by its cover."

Is that a good enough explanation?

Yes, Thank you.

[sweetlymon]

Originally Posted by jowlar

Out of curiosity.

If a black man displayed a rebel flag honoring an ancestor that fought bravely during the civil war, would anyone still be offended?

If a white man put a sign in his yard that read "white people are bad", would anyone still be offended?

Honestly, my opinion about a black man displaying a rebel flag, would be to piss "some" white people off. Most likely the whites who wear it and display it.

[mmcd3182]

Originally Posted by Bamassee

I'm sorry, I do not totally agree with some of your statements with regards to black vs. white achievements and what assistance is/was available to each to help obtain financial goals.

I do appreciate the difficulties faced by you or anyone that works hard for financial success or stability however, contrary to your post, I believe it's just as difficult for a white, or those of ANY ethnicity, not born into privilege, to achieve that goal. It's certainly not exclusive to the Black Community by any means.

It's difficult for everyone today. I still do think some have it worse than others though. I've seen and heard it personally.

[Kagan]

I understand where you are coming from, demopolite.

However, I have more problems with people who are "repeat offenders" than I do with "first impressioners." I have a couple of relatives in the extended family who are constantly complaining about black people...they don't use the word "black" either. Everytime I see them, they seme to have to tell me, "The n****rs are taking over this, and the n****rs are taking over that."

In the past 10 years, I've begun avoiding these family members. I even skipped a funeral of a family member because I just didn't want to contend with the living just to honor the dead. I tell them that I just don't want to hear all of that, but they continue. They call me a "flaming liberal" and a "n****r-lover"...then they continue with their racist rantings.

I teach at a school where the student body since August 1999 has included only 1 white, 2 Hispanics, and countless blacks. I care deeply for the psychological as well as the academic development of my students. People who know me well know that I speak postively of my students both on and off campus. I don't like to see or hear things that might offend them. Why? Because ALL teeangers, not just black ones, are looking for adults to be who they say that they are. Therefore, I generally avoid people who I know have racist-tendencies. I might acknowledge the person's presence and say one or two quick sentences, but then I'm off before we can get into deeper conversation.

As for the designation "friend," more people use it to describe me than I use it to describe me. The Bible uses the word "friend" to describe someone with whom you share deeply held beliefs. A Biblical friend will also share your worldview. A Biblical friend is one who walks through the crisis with you and deflects the criticism from your enemies for you. Biblical friends will have more in common with them than just 10 fingers and 10 toes. I've heard the word "friend" tossed about rather loosely in this area throughout my life. There are even some on this board who call me "friend." Maybe I have been one to them in a crisis...I hope I have. Maybe they have tried to be one to me in a crisis...I hope they have. However, we do NOT "walk together" as the Bible says friends should. Therefore, we are NOT friends.

which is why I'm asking follow-up questions and posing analogies

And they are?

[mmcd3182]

Originally Posted by sweetlymon

Honestly, my opinion about a black man displaying a rebel flag, would be to piss "some" white people off. Most likely the whites who wear it and display it.

So it sounds like in this post that the Rebel Flag is for Whites Only? If blacks use it, they are doing so out of spite? It seems to me that if some white people want to fly it because of "Heritage" or "Pride", then a black person should be able to do the same thing if they're so inclined. But it sounds like they can't because it would "piss 'some' white people off."

Is the Battle Flag the "white term of endearment," like the use of the word "n****r" between black people? I can't comment on the second because I'm not black, and as far as the first -- the Battle Flag, we can easily see here that not all people display or even like the Rebel Flag. I would bet the same goes for "some people" of the black race as in the use of the n-word. Some say it's a term of endearment between fellow blacks -- some say it's a horrible reminder of the times of Jim Crow and the ongoing prejudicial treatment of blacks by any race (especially white).

[saddlebum]

Originally Posted by Papa2

I dont knwo abotu the rest of the whites but I can assure you thi sone never recieved a penny of inheritance from either of My parents and what I have I have worked for from the time I was 12 years old!
And Demopolite ot answer your question NONONONONONONO Id not recognnize any of my family members if they were Nazis as they killed innocent people that couldnt protect themselves even gassing thousands at the time including men women and children!
To even mention in the same phrase the Rebel Flag and the Swaztika is an abomination way worse thean Saban comparing the lose to La. Monroe to 9-11 and Pearl Harbor and Yes I love the Crimson Tide!

Papa 2 , your worst problem is your dismal football loyalty . WAR EAGLE !!!! It's not too late to support a winning team and be happy .

[sweetlymon]

Originally Posted by mmcd3182

So it sounds like in this post that the Rebel Flag is for Whites Only? If blacks use it, they are doing so out of spite? It seems to me that if some white people want to fly it because of "Heritage" or "Pride", then a black person should be able to do the same thing if they're so inclined. But it sounds like they can't because it would "piss 'some' white people off."

Is the Battle Flag the "white term of endearment," like the use of the word "n****r" between black people? I can't comment on the second because I'm not black, and as far as the first -- the Battle Flag, we can easily see here that not all people display or even like the Rebel Flag. I would bet the same goes for "some people" of the black race as in the use of the n-word. Some say it's a term of endearment between fellow blacks -- some say it's a horrible reminder of the times of Jim Crow and the ongoing prejudicial treatment of blacks by any race (especially white).

How many blacks have "you" ever seen wearing it or displaying it?